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Black crosses for German cemeteries

n°362
egbert
Posté le 31-08-2009 à 15:17:09  profilanswer
 

We have a discussion elsewhere as to why the German WW1 cemeteries in France have black crosses. The internet hints to the Treaty of Versailles, but actually the articles do not say anything about it. Are there any known annexes to the Treaty or does anybody know the reason German=black, victors= white crosses? Or is it a myth of our days?


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In Erinnerung an Grossvater OffzStellv. Gottfried S., IR 49, 4.Kompanie, gefallen 1 May 1918 bei Merville/Bois de Nieppe. Ici est son histoire:  http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/ [...] opic=40572
n°429
vesuve 421​00
Posté le 20-01-2010 à 23:17:17  profilanswer
 

egbert a écrit :

We have a discussion elsewhere as to why the German WW1 cemeteries in France have black crosses. The internet hints to the Treaty of Versailles, but actually the articles do not say anything about it. Are there any known annexes to the Treaty or does anybody know the reason German=black, victors= white crosses? Or is it a myth of our days?


Hello,
I have this question too and someone says me exactely the same:
victory= white
defeat= black

n°430
mudra
Posté le 21-01-2010 à 20:14:39  profilanswer
 

I think it is a myth of our days. Bear in mind that in the 1920ies (1922-1927) the French government, when relocating German graves and restyling existing German cemeteries, replaced the old wartime wooden crosses (often used in natural condition ("dark" ) or well ornamented gravestones with uniform very simple black wooden crosses. The layout was very simple, after all Germany lost the war,no need for huge monuments and lots of ornament. Thanks to the Volksbund, German cemeteries regained atmosphere when these were slowly restyled again (walls, monuments, trees, flowers...). Those wooden crosses lasted a long time, sometimes till the 1970ies.  
Most of these wooden crosses were replaced with black metal crosses (others with stone crosses or other forms).
Besides, the theory of black being the colour of the defeated does not match to all German cemeteries. A lot of grey stone crosses or other forms were also being used.
 
(Egbert: you may use my point of view (which I do not consider to be the "correct" answer) on another forum. Please be so democratic to refer to this
French forum...)
 
regards, Wim


Message édité par mudra le 21-01-2010 à 20:15:31
n°431
vesuve 421​00
Posté le 23-01-2010 à 00:32:46  profilanswer
 

vesuve 42100 a écrit :


Hello,
I have this question too and someone says me exactely the same:
victory= white
defeat= black


I've listen another think, when you go in a war cemetery, you are in the country of the cemetery:
German  cemetery= you are in Germany
American cemetery= you are in America

n°666
mtmc
Posté le 26-09-2013 à 21:41:11  profilanswer
 

Hallo,  
Wim deine Antwort ist richtig.Nach dem Versailler Vertrag betreute die Französische Regierung die Deutschen Soldatenfriedhöfe des 1. Weltkrieges. Die Gefallenen deutschen Soldaten sofern namentlich bekannt erhielten schlichte Holzkreuze. Nach dem 2. Kriegsgräberabkommen zwischen Frankreich und Deutschland übernahm ab18.7.1966 der Volksbund Deutscher Kriegsgräberfürsorge die Anlagen.
Es wurde beschlossen die bestehenden schlichten Holzkreuze durch Metallkreuze zu ersetzen ohne dabei den bescheidenen Charakter der dunklen Holzkreuze zu verlieren, im Gegenteil diesen eher noch zu verstärken. Ich hoffe ich konnte euch etwas weiter helfen
viele Grüße Uwe

n°672
l'amiral
Posté le 16-10-2013 à 12:01:54  profilanswer
 

Hello,
I recently was told by a French historian (specialized in 1914-18) that the raison why the German military crosses and graves/sepultures are/were « black » is due to the fact that during the war there were generally made in wood and, to preserve them for a longer time, they were … coated with (black-) tar.
 
My money : why not ?
Best regards,
L’amiral.

n°673
Yv'
Posté le 17-10-2013 à 00:15:20  profilanswer
 

Hi all,
 
In this newspaper of September 1915, it seems that the phrase "croix noires" refers to German crosses, but I'm not 100 % sure of it.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/b [...] %22.langFR
 
In this document of 1917, you can read "We have seen also the black crosses of the German dead".
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/b [...] %22.langFR
 
So this existed well before the Treaty of Versailles.
 
Now I found something for the post-war era :
http://images.mesdiscussions.net/pages14-18/mesimages/4284/GermanCrosses.jpg
(L'Ouest-Eclair (Rennes), 31 octobre 1931, http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k658717s/f6.image )
 
Regards.
Yves

n°685
rslc55
Posté le 24-11-2013 à 19:52:35  profilanswer
 

Hallo
 
Ja ist ja gut und recht. Aber wer hat schon diese interallierten  Verträge gesehen ?
 
Gruss
 
Pierre


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